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[personal profile] merhawk
I've been watching with increasing frustration the calls from various politicians and law enforcement (who should know better!) that the answer to a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun.

That is sometimes the answer. The majority of people who shoot - even those who know how to shoot straight and hit what they're intending - are not trained to shoot in stressful situations. You'll have a gun, you'll be able to point it, but the question is will you be level-headed enough to shoot the person threatening people without making yourself a bigger target and endangering other people.

Even if someone has a gun, there are other ways to try and take them down - that is safer for everyone else involved. A person without extensive training on how to shoot in chaotic conditions is rarely able to safely and/or helpfully waving a gun around trying to save everyone else.

The Daily Show illustrates perfectly why this run on guns and concealed weapons permits actually can make us unsafer:

Jordan Klepper: Good Guy with a Gun part 1

Jordan Klepper: Good Guy with a Gun part 2

(no subject)

Date: 2015-12-15 08:54 pm (UTC)
kjn: (Default)
From: [personal profile] kjn
Another factor, which I think is entirely missing from the discussion, is the insight that a good sensible stance on an individual level, might be utterly disastrous on the group level.

You have a gun, and are decently trained in how to handle it, and it's stored safely. So are all your neighbours et c. The trouble is that now it's much more likely that criminals will carry guns whatever they do, from robberies to simple burglaries, since they will expect everyone else to carry guns. They are also much more likely to use them preemptively.

If, on the other hand, very few (if any) carry guns, it's much more likely that criminals won't carry guns, or if they do have them, use them preemptively.

(no subject)

Date: 2015-12-16 06:55 am (UTC)
kjn: (Default)
From: [personal profile] kjn
Oh, the model fits the USA too. Trouble is, your entire country is in the "everyone carry guns" mode right now.

(no subject)

Date: 2015-12-16 05:59 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] some-other-dave.livejournal.com
And the pro-gun folks conveniently ignore the cases where "a good guy with a gun" went and shot the wrong people...

(no subject)

Date: 2015-12-16 06:01 am (UTC)
ext_909977: (Default)
From: [identity profile] canyonwalker.livejournal.com
I see two problems with the myth of "a good guy with a gun". The first is, as the Jordan Klepper videos demonstrate, that even if you are a well intentioned lawful gun owner it can still be challenging to thwart a violent crime in progress. Such scenes are often very chaotic, making it difficult to be effective against the perpetrator. Even police officers who are professionally trained for this sort of thing find it challenging. Consider how often, despite their training, they shoot the wrong person or use excessive force.

The second problem, which Klepper touched on only tangentially, is the challenge of how you recognize who the good guy actually is. In film and TV gunslinger stories we virtually always know who's the hero and who's the villain. The writers and directors telegraph it to us in a number of small ways even before the unfolding plot, presented to us as if by an omniscient narrator, reveals it explicitly. Real life is not going to be like this.

Suppose a bad guy walks into a movie theater or a dance club with a gun and starts shooting. Now suppose "a good guy with a gun" is there to react. But in a society where people are encouraged to carry weapons to protect themselves and the broader public, it's not just going to be a guy with a gun. It's going to be several people with guns. And that's where it becomes madness.

When Good Guy #1 draws a gun and/or starts firing, Good Guy #2 is not necessarily going to know whether Good Guy #1 is actually Good Guy #1 or Bad Guy #2. Likewise, GG1 may see GG2 drawing a weapon and mistake him for BG1's partner in crime. Now Good Guy #3 sees multiple people opening fire and decides to "help", shooting at either GG1 or GG2 or both. It quickly becomes a total clusterfuck.

The obvious way to be sure who's a Good Guy With a Gun is for them to be uniformed police officers.

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